A Conversation with Dr. Willis

Jesse: [sarcastic] OK! The hardest thing about losing your dad is that no matter how hard you try, you keep remembering all the times when you were mad at him or irritated or didn’t want to spend time with him and you wish you could go back and take it all back.

Dr. Willis: So when I ask you to tell me what the hardest thing is about losing your dad, in your response, instead of saying, “the hardest thing about losing MY dad is that no matter how hard I try…” you said, “the hardest thing about losing YOUR dad is that no matter how hard YOU try…” Who are you talking about when you say, “you?”

Jesse: You know what I mean! You know I mean, “I.”

DW: You are right. I was pretty sure I knew you meant “I.” The problem is, being “pretty sure” is not really good enough for me. Where and when possible I want to be sure. And I also want to know that you know who you are talking about. You have had a pretty difficult thing happen to you and I think I owe it to you that if I am not certain, I follow up with some questions so that I can offer you the help you need.

Jesse: OK, ok!  I, I, I … me, me, me! Are you happy now!?

DW: Are you happy?

Jesse: Not right now, I am not! I don’t see why all this matters!

DW: Well, I would argue that it matters because when you say “My father” and “I feel” I know that you are talking about your personal and unique experience. When you say “your father” and “you feel” you might be talking about similar feelings or experiences that people have when they lose someone they love but not necessarily yours.

Jesse: I don’t see why it matters that I TALK about it.

DW: Ok. That is a very good point. Why does talking about this matter. Let me ask you this. Why would you not want to talk about it?

Jesse: I don’t really have anything to say about it. It’s sad, it’s horrible. What is the point of talking about it?

DW:  That's a very good reason. You don’t really have anything to say about it. Is there a situation where you would want to talk to someone, a therapist, for example?

Jesse: I guess if I had a problem that I couldn’t figure out or something like that, I might want to talk to someone smart who might be able to help me figure out how to solve it.

DW: Excellent! Absolutely. So then the reason that it doesn’t seem like a good idea to talk about your dad is because it is not a problem that you need help solving.

Jesse: Yeah. He’s dead. There is nothing I can do to change it so I don’t need to talk to someone to figure out how to fix anything.

DW: The situation is what it is and nothing can change it. There is no problem so you don’t need help solving anything. That makes perfect sense. I agree with you completely.

Jesse: You do?

DW: Yes. In fact I am going to make a pact with you right now that whatever happens with us, how ever long we work together—because who knows, maybe we'll figure out this is not at all what you need—that I will never talk to you about how we can try to fix the fact that your dad and sister have died or make you talk about anything that is not a problem that needs to be fixed.

Jesse: Great! Well, I don’t have any problems so I guess I can go…

DW: Ok. But before you go, we should probably address the reason your mom sent you here, right? I mean, if we don’t, you probably will have a problem on your hands, don’t you think?

Jesse: [sigh/eye roll] Ok.

DW: Ok. I know. So let’s just get it out of the way. She seems to think that you do have some problems. Maybe she is wrong. But let’s at least look at it so we know and you don’t leave here and then suddenly realize that you do have some problems that I could have helped you with.

Jesse: What are my problems?

DW: I don’t know. Why don’t we start with what your mom thinks your problems are.

Jesse: She’s worried that I am not hanging out with anyone and am spending all of my time alone.

DW: Ok. Is that a problem for you?

Jesse: No

DW: Great. So we have discovered the first problem. That you and your mom have a different idea about what a problem is when it comes to how you spend your time.

Jesse: Right.

DW: This is a great place to start. How do you handle this disagreement with your mom?

Jesse: I ignore her.

DW: And what happens when you ignore your mom and her requests or concerns?

Jesse: She freaks out. Yells. Cries. Stuff like that.

DW: So there is not a lot of peace and calm in your house?

Jesse: No way! We barely talk.

DW: Are you ok with that?

Jesse: No:

DW: Looks like we are starting to uncover the real problem, then.

Jesse: [overly exaggerated enthusiasm] I guess we have!

DW: She wants you to be more social. You ignore her. The house is in turmoil. Would you consider being more social to bring peace to the house?

Jesse: I don’t want to be social! I told her that. I don’t know why she keeps harping on it.

DW:  Why don’t you want to? Forgive me for asking. It is ok to feel more or less social so I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. But for most kids your age this is a very social time and I can’t help but wonder why you don’t want to be social at all. Did something happen?

Jesse: I am not “most kids.”

DW: True. No one is, really. But what specifically makes you not “most kids”?

Jesse: Um. Well. My dad and sister died a horribly violent death by drowning, for starters.

DW: Is that why you don’t want to be social?

Jesse: No.

DW: Then why? Can you tell me?

Jesse: I don’t know. I guess I don’t really like other kids my age. Or any age. I don’t really like kids.

DW: Do you know why? Is there something about them specifically that bothers you? Like, for example, I have this pet peeve when people chew with their mouth open. So I have at times chosen not to pursue friendships with people because they chew with their mouth open … it wasn’t the only reason, of course, but it sealed the deal.

Jesse: I don’t know that there’s one reason or thing. I just think kids my age are stupid. They’re all boring and they follow each other around like they have never had an interesting thought or idea in their whole lives. Everyone dresses the same, talks the same, likes the same boring music. It’s so lame.

DW: I can see that. That sounds pretty boring to me, too. But so, it’s the “nature” of the kids that bothers you, or irritates you, not the kids. If they were more interesting or unique, you might like to hang out with them.

Jesse: Yeah.

DW: You are not “anti-social” you are “anti-social-with-these-kids.”

Jesse. Yeah.

DW: That’s great news, then!

Jesse: Yeah? Why?

DW: Well … your problem, as we have identified it, is that your mother wants you to hang out with kids and you don’t want to, right?

Jesse: Right.

DW: You can now go to your mom and tell her that you don’t disagree with her. That you want to be more social. You just don’t like your choices right now. That you will be on the lookout for kids you like and want to spend time with and when you find them, you will be more social.

Jesse: Ha! And you think she will go for that!?

DW: No. Probably not. But at least you won’t be arguing about it any more and I think she won’t be as worried as she is right now if you let her know that you don’t prefer to spend the rest of your life alone in your room. Don’t you?

Jesse: Yeah. I guess.

DW:  So you don’t like how boring these kids are, we’ve established this. What do you want in a friend or friends? What does “not being boring” look like to you?

Jesse: I don’t know. That’s kind of a hard question. I don’t think I have a kind person in mind that I want to be friends with. But I guess I just want them to know that there is more to life than clothes and dances and who likes who. I don’t even know if I would want to be all serious all the time. I just don’t want to pretend that these stupid things are the most important things in the world. Sometimes I feel like no one understands me and that I am this complete weirdo. And so I feel like I have to pretend.

DW: What do you feel like you have to pretend to be?

Jesse: Like I am cool and interested sports and girls and stuff.

DW: How do you want to be? What would being real look like to you?

Jesse: I don’t know. Just relaxed. Comfortable. Not trying to be cool. Just being cool.

DW: Have you ever been with someone you felt like you could be yourself?

Jesse: At my house I’m like that.

DW: At school? Out here?

Jesse: I can’t remember. I don’t think so. I mean not since they died. I think people think I am weird. So I try to be normal. But then that makes me seem even weirder. I think people always think of me as the kid whose dad and sister died. Like that is all I think about. Like I am thinking about that all day everyday.

DW: Are you thinking about them all the time?

Jesse: Not always. Not really. I mean, I don’t know. It is hard to say.

DW: Why?

Jesse: Well … because… when you lose … when I lost MY dad and sister… it was sad and even though I am sad a lot more it is not always because I am thinking “my dad and sister died.”  I get sad sometimes just because in general I am sad.

DW: I see. So you are sad right now in your life and it is very difficult for kids your age to know how to deal with that and so you just avoid the whole situation.

Jesse: Yeah.

DW: And that is ok. You know that, right?

Jesse: No. I don’t know. Know what?

DW: Something really awful happened to you. Something that is not supposed to happen to a boy your age. Most kids your age have never had anyone close to them die. And so they don’t really know how to interact with you. The fact that you have experienced so much death, the death of your father and your sister, reminds them that something like this is possible in anyone’s life. What is OK is that you are understandably feeling uncomfortable or even unsafe around your peers right now and you are protecting yourself. That is ok. This is a lot for a 13 year old to deal with. I think it is ok for you not to put yourself in a position where you might get hurt or feel uncomfortable about what you are going through.